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0//r da^jasen aiodx volunteered at the 
(df)cewt£r, la^ °nly awarchist center. 

ITS OtfE Of THE NIFTIEST PUCE5 XVfc ElER 
8 6 EN . ^ C-A*/ LEARN/ AMD HAVE FUK/ AT THE* 
SAMBTlME. Awii THE PECPLfc. THERE AR&SO 
bEDlCATEO Ais/D HA\/E PuT Sd MUCH EFFCW ||JTO IT. 
ANYWAY, WE" WERE tHFpE- KEEPtMa Ah'EYE OfJ 
1HEpiAcE,W0?ilMN6i On) T*US*JME.READiW^ 
F*OM TVie AWESOME MBRARf *pp HAVlh/6 A 
Sgjg I IM E: T ASEK/ PtT up A PAmPHUETABoUT 
uS^if" 7 ^^ W ^^ f *oh THE P^PUCUCAlO 
.HEADQUARTERS IW PASADEMA.HE RESTED »T OfJ 

prL^ uu ^ T,w Board, Partial^ AS A 3&KE, 

^r^M**"'*" PA*n*u* TO See. 
LATEB. £^ HAPJPftM. ^THeR People ARRWfcD 

JASEW EXPLAl WfiD/ HE Put (TbWJS^V 
iv» UU Ufej Lfc£>T A N YOM€, O ^E BUBO KTHc tTA^<- i c\ 

*** because it wmiZEJ* PRop * 

^^^^T^ATEUY lteJffi»rfSBff 

Sfc*M »TS^ c ^»4W NEED , S 
OURSELVES W^'S&tt*""**** 

*jcttm£Akj rr should 6* ksUw^tS^S-r 

WE SHOULD ABSORB all SIDES* ^Smf 
\^ SHOULD WOT RElKJFoftcE OUROWN OpiNiOW 
OVERAHt) oV*e..V<=»*J'T TtiAT BRAin-W^Hima 
t AMSORP-1 XF3= op^^^ an/one. Rot 

of *me si**-% as op^^ tb vdriigs thI 

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(DE)CENTER 

BOOKSTORE 

IS a non-profit booKs+ore-Hxrf- carries 
literate un3vateV>le'»n-tV«iifiundar,e 
L-/\-vjJastetend.You will find texts from 
around -yfjc^dbe pfintei in ErtolisK.as 

6122^ N.FIGUEROA ST. 
HIGHLAND PARK CA. 90042 
HOURS: 3-7p.f11. 

^» (213)344-7017 4» Qn4 out 

3 ^ eVcr ^^.«cttons, e tc.<^! 







I AM A REPUBLICAN BECAUSE... 



I believe that the proper function of government is to do for the 
people those things that have to be done but cannot be done or 
cannot be done as well, by individuals, and that the most effective 
government is government closest to the people. 

I believe that good government is based on the individual and 
that each persons ability, dignity, freedom and responsibility must 
be honored and recognized. 

I believe that free enterpnse and the encouragement of indi- 
vidual initiative and incentive have given this nation an economic 
system second to none 

I believe that sound money management should be our goal. 

I believe in equal rights, equal justice and equal opportunity for 
all, regardless of race, creed, age, sex or national ongin 

I believe we must retain those pnnciples of the past worth retain- 
ing, yet always be receptive to new ideas with an outlook broad 
enough to accommodate thoughtful change and varying points of 

I believe that Americans value and should preserve their feeling 
oTnational strength and pnde, and at the same time share with 
People everywhere a desire for peace and freedom and the exten- 
sion of human rights throughout the world. 

Finally, I believe that the Republican Party is the best vehicle for 
translating these ideals into positive and successful pnnciples of 
government. 




DAN BOYUE. and I met in a liiVle 
■H\ra^h/punK record store +ha+ xmafc 

^OfWna a+;We became very close ~ (Rends 
0-no noflning u)OS going 1o change 4hoet. 
or so it- seemed. A few years IcElec Dan 
Had $o44erv \rWoWed wtfn <x local mziiftn . 
(Jroup . X ioas aev+irq into -HC/ punt and 
became a bla-rnoumed arvtf-raus+".We 
Stopped nanriim out- ftr 4u*a\e. We^ust 
S^fn't see « Y ? to e Y e. We bed* became 
»£ore tnvblv/ed ^euroion lives. Wher\ vy« 
Wf*»u met up aa^x couWJnH> see ana of 
the oVa Dan +hat x Knev*. He vuas trtally 
AvWerent. or ujo&VTe^ Our parties were tsfHl 
°xe, actually}** iirfalW different sides of 
^tie speehum.I did rot 'li ice Wim at* ait. WAS 
Jt because te had become Wmsevf or just 

l^T^i" ^^shtp or p©utics?Xdeciaed 
+Uat poh-hcs were more imoortant.x 
Stopped associating tuitW Kim. He called o,nd 
stopped fca.x shoused no interest. x left -me 
swe -fir -tufa years ond dvdn»t Keepin-teutH 
u/ith Kim. Nou* -mat xfn baefc,he'S been 
Shou3*ir»9wpQndcaliirg.xVs a great feelina-te 
Know *nat he'S^Stitt my friend. ArfiratXiooc 

£\ewkYvtp.The toing lSjX ne*er \o*r\t ttes been 
#\ereje^en uuben x uas cut+inq histoeHfefsaaun, 

Even ujhenioelbo^ht^he uJc^ldalu*oA|Sc©me , 
toac*. And nou>?x Can'tiorn mu baclConHJm. 
-He* been a accd-fr'iend *> we. Xt does not writer 
tfca+he Wales non- umttes.xi- does not matter 
4V\oct Vie is a ctouuanisr. -He is mu friend and 
X ajrr. his.This dee& not mean that X am a 
J*"i*VW^«F\3: have and utoi aUtfays 
<jive W 5 K\t about his beliefs . He witt aWays 

£?? **1^^ •'#****>* beenaamsi'sfert- 
S S£ V 8 ^ TT *K«KaA» correct of 

Orr^l^ **¥*■ Wtabout btin. 
KC. x +« about people who can toreafcdoum 

enougjh \pooAaane s 4 not onl^ enouan-m 

comrnuumcaAejbot a\so to W*\d*ku$ran* 
ut^erstandAna,. xP anyone Was a problem- 
because X can mate -friend^ u>ev\ then 
tney can-ffcc* off .-mis \Sno+ on \n*itomon<&T 

WaliS -to become- my fh'endSj in case you. 

cuere ujonaeryrxj. fc\> >j oa racists <=An eat- my 

n »39e»"-loVm'sWiiTriat means you-too, Dq n , 



Tnfi Scout motro is B£ fPSrWED- A Sa^ut 
Prepares -for ufltaflfrefcltt" cotvtt wu way 
bM \earn\na a\V We carv He V^eps Wtms^ 

cv\oJi\ew^es o f L» XrBt 

The ScooV LcvvO IS +r\ai- cv Scoo+ 

must be CtEAKnfclfrFUL, 

some of wese rules seerr* poSitiv/e^ 
Xm concerned abou+ +he acruai 
app\icaHons o£ -rhese u laujs 1 '. 
Ihe Scou+s is cxncrtiona\i5+ <$ar\q led 
by people w\nose rriiY>ds ate s+uclc. \n 
^vfc Boij UJaVlyayvdine Beaveri 

r\eo- puritan; Soc\a\\y +yranKiax\ 

fascism. Flag ooavers vSolcii^^j 

Klansme^j ftepotoWcanSjPro-U^rs, 

and KJfiA Supporters <^c*Hhe*ir sbr+ 
»ntt\e 6 coats. Keep -rWxVtr\ rriirvd. 

PUNX 

co^d learn 
alof from 
people who 
really go 
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5 Missed out on beodNuNiS a "BovsczjuT 
RE^^ UIi °^ Wls fact, im/vst^e 

Xw£*k«SES^ ET> 2 F "*»(* CHILDHOOD. 

Tt!tr^ E7HAT V0U COULDN'T Go our 
AND PUM BECAUSE VOU HA.D TOTWOKl. 
t PEME1A8ER HOW MY SCHQ3U TCACHCE> 

2a£«&3&£* BOY, AOcoPdinK 

LEARNED THE R « BV ^R'Sf^^EVER. 
OF MANHCOfc.rExP^i^ *<T^S 

-me/ teach o-MPErmo w^f*«^ °* N/ - 

Homophobia AND mTuI-Im^! A&Eiai^ 

XS StKAND DESTRUCTIVE OuJvSi T 

PRE-M\HTAW MIUTARV 6RouP * ,S 
DtSGUtSED A<> ONE BIG HAPPV FAMILY? 
ID •lolN?OH ) -TOJoiN YooVefiCTTD.- 

* Be a mcxle.Vwi-tenosexucAj IHYvears o\&, 

Setrft*. WomAcVosp. SQlute ^<^i«nA -the 

2=°«V EoSJJf : * *^ u * r « *«* «^A Ae*c T \te -»r. 



fW-fliisWsay 5 



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*»• . • To help other people at all times; * # '% \ • 

• .»^» To keep myself physically strong, • • • • . * 

• * ^mentally awake, and morally straight. '. f • • t* • , 

Leas+ 0^ e»od Turn e3Wc»$I5; a* I 




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HWE6 F*UN.'/ KJNAt OTHER 

tfFucTMio? UAfSCKAMBi-E. 

NRAPSA NDteKBRAH 



spr\ N5HEU> sw^ ; Fuck: off .' 

A6AU><S-«y tfN AVESPA 
PUTTERS BY N*D calls fAE- DYKE 
P.UT AT l-EAST H£ DON'T SAY NIGGER 
ANiATLJ^TrtEPoNTSAYKlKfc 
^HAvRP-YOU KN°fc> WHAT iTSTANbS FoR 

v/ fl u use rf WHEN Y»u CAN 

RUT t'V£ 5EE ^ ^ oRE1 SE^lHt)T\£5CSF 
-SwJTHt LOCAL- /^CWSPARER ^AN 

! saw www y»aD«>T» wyFRieat) 

soTWAT'S vOHAT YOU DIOto rA£ 
I voi sh THAT £T0N£ /AAlUPJ>Efc 
SAU> WiAAN EMPATHY 
ANT\-R/tiST SKINHEAD k 
CANHOT REALLY fiEAf PUED 
AS AM ADSECT\y£ R7R SOMEONE 
I -.HO'c £M&^>5S£D IN ifclSH ?£tf£ 
WTTrt^K/^ALLy THINK 

fop KMotHeR SEASON To FIS Hl f 

ever/one's got ts A s£Bau_ bats 

SoAAEBoPY's L6ST ATDOTH 

I'M Rocrr\ N3- FOR; THE AJA?| S 

:AU^E XT LET AST THEKTEU-T/E-TRKni 






OUT 



NO COMMENT 

'87 Demo 7" 
$3 u.s./SS world 




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FOR SALE | 

Bargain EP 7" 1 

$2.50 U.S./ ! 

$4.50 world * 









SEND STAMP FOR COMPLETE USTItlQ. PLEASE MAKE 
ALL FUWDS PAVABLE TO LUJS ESTEFAWA. 



TsTOTSE PATCff 

F.O. BOX 1G4G 
JfcJEZPOJSTIPO BEACH, CU 
9027S IX&A 
(310X379-580? FAX (310)376-0083 



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mci fteni a\\ 4ta Witev fys tWrt- i u<& ft PY 

ae^rtgexdteiat4+e_ir*5hon or seeing al! 
Sfyvt \\i\colr\ b^^hsHc armunrcnAusfy^rs, 
Verses sptecHertA v*V\ <yeen paint, bra fen 
airf hnes, c^ns of fl33S/felw price, pe&ple, 
Armless ^c^bn^qores ; uqty^^^arun*iJSy 
arci evenjlVMAiW$ ocOkptzA wvj d*ys iv/ufc 
.Sittings wuj arm^iYwis '^unqle of a ktcfcyajd. 

Vv*W price w WfLl^s pky^lujKickreiw/iqi 

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1 usetH°, shuA o«a -Ho- ordo^ \efti*i\ cUWlt 

Suina \\fa Tdx-za^N- '\ Aiditvis <\W«. Salute 
T^eme mia^ Mil Cheeky or TJV -- 



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a.ujlM le. a«dL new «ft*tf- 'i rteeA. H, "its oone 
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VjJorlA 6oa€. tfaX 7 . J 



This *»s not otoout punx wWo wcxs^e +he\r 
Kves b>( TTerrainmg stt^ojf^cxnt. This is abouh 
pos'i1iMSc\nianqe .This *\s my support -for ttxse 
odivte »t\ progressive socia\ programs.X 
applaud +Ve efforH erf teachers, social 
worters.Fica^ MoV Bombs.Wor Resteers Lfiag^, 
Amnesfv lnternational,and countless o+hers 
luho volunteer -Hieir-Hme -for the benefit of 
hunrvx^/aninnal/environfneniai rights.These 
ans people who ax>rk lor^lnouns uuith li'H-le 
support.These are true role models $>r K»'ds, 
not vblent Yigilqntesglannourizecl on TV. 
These people ore owiiirng -fe ujotK a«fA #)e 
system in orJer 1to mcufce society a defter 
p/qce . Ms -fcr mt/setf; x qm undecided. I 
KnoLuihaf- if X cuorjfed in convalescent 
care orAane/ess sfott&rtJE'd besen/ing 
%e community bef^trihon a/bf oTi5/f- 
SerW/15 ofticicifc.Todo -MiSjX tvould We 
te compfe?m/ie. flmX a;////^ ib db ^/V? 
Can T-fol/ou; -tte ru/es of #iis foubj&} 
s^-fem in order io help ifee m need ?X 
fonou^ self- proclaimed qnancK}s/s a/te 
are going io Schcol -fa do J usf ihat.They 
uxtnriobe teachers, &cia( vuork&rstfc. 
TTiey believelW ttvey can rmte a difference. 
Klo overH\ro\A/ of "the op\/ernfrmttajould 

be conqp/efe wfhoutlte de\telcpmetf of 
* neeAy commurvfy. p^^ ihethslde out; 
-tfiese peop/e are u-ork/ng-gr-f^ 
fceWermertf ( ^>f Me ^/fua^bnx support 
^>6fe ShorQ mdivtd\xkls qnd I hope +*iqf 

Somedavjjx ^^^ -find +Ke same sttemVh 
ln ^yse\f . ^ 





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a^Vw 1 gefl-^o ft$ W o^ Cor owce 

^ \/o^ askv^e > 5 NORMAL Uc^se 

i V S W<\*4 i v 5 -+Iv<l w<\v| ^ost people 

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^^^aI H'S weiVl t^+ ^os*\~ 

<"**+ -ho clta*, C efUft.-V everyone tUt i\$* l f 
*^^'S wcirA H»*Vwo S + people kacVe+kc. 



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sW^ *H\e. cJlecY ( N * < v 5**t*iftl ccF+cr fe a.k©vV a 

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hundreds of volts, i know similar conditions 
do exist in asylums today from reading the 
things i could find that were published in 
this decade, i'm still curious about 
improvements or deteriorations in the 
system, i read a column in 
maximumrocknroll by evan harrington that 
mentioned buddhists who blabbed to their 
shrinks about spiritual revelations after deep 
meditation, many of them were locked up 
and dosed with thorazine. i found this 
interesting because i went to catholic school 
as a kid and we learned about christians who 
claimed to see the virgin mary or had their 
hands and feet "mysteriously pierced like 
I jesus during crucifixion", these people were 
r .w. canonized, what makes one person a deviant 
V * . makes another a saint, because eastern 
religions are crazy in a western world, if 
you're a functioning human being, chances 
are you have had countless thoughts that 
doctors would consider crazy, but if you're 
reading this, you've hidden them well, i for 

one will continue to hide mine, at the end of 
the movie i watched, a doctor made a 
comment that has begun to haunt me. he 
said, "the brain and the soul are two separate 
_;^"i things, therefore, it is not against god to 
j change a person from personality a. to 
H * personality b." 






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Go to Jail in 
San Francisco 

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The City by the Bay is almost 
medieval in its treatment of the 
homeless as inhuman. 

This week, Keith McHenry is silling by 
the phone waiting for a call to come 
down to Superior Court in San Francisco lo 
face a felony charge arising from his 
efforts to feed the city's homeless. San 
Francisco has piled other felony charges 
on him. So this Good Samaritan faces a 
possible life sentence under California's 
three-strikes-and-you're-out law. 

For feeding homeless people in San 
Francisco, McHenry has been arrested 92 
limes since 1988. though never tried and 
never convicted. Right now. the U.N. 
Commission on Human Rights in Geneva 
has his treatment under review. 

Anywhere from 6,000 to 15,000 people in 
San Francisco are in shelters or flophouse 
hotels or making do in alleys and parks. 
The homeless, the panhandlers and kin- 
dred sidewalk sentries are disturbing to 
many folks, most of all the downtown 
businesses who want them off Union 
Square, Civic Center and the parks. Let 
'em go someplace else, like Oakland. 

In fact, as in many other cities across the 
country, ihe homeless are a mixed bunch, 
very much the same as the homeless in 
another tough era for poor folk, described 
by Sir Thomas More in his "Utopia," 
published in 1516. Discussing vagrants in 
16th-century England, More talked of 
people looking for work but not finding it, 
vets ("those who often come home crip- 
pled from foreign or civil wars") and 
assorted victims of the profit motive. In 
More's time, it was the enclosures. Today, 
it's jobs heading south. 

Then, as now, homeless included the 
insane, either left to wander the streets or. 
at the discretion of arresting officers. 
dropped off at the hospital or the jail 

Mayor Frank Jordan's Matrix program, 
launched in 1993, saw the San Francisco 
homeless hassled viciously, their bundles 
of belongings and carts tossed into garbage 
trucks. Harassment extended to McHenry 
and his fellow members—among whom are 
homeless people— of Food Nol Bombs, 
Their crime has been Lo feed the homeless 
and to assert that homeless people are full 




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citizens with full citizens' rights. 

Out of 720 arrests and an expenditure by 
the city of $5 million on homeless hassling, 
only one Food Not Bombs volunteer! 
Robert Norse Kahn, has gone to trial] 
handed 60 days (being appealed) for 
giving a woman a bagel in one of the city 
parks. On May 10, McHenry was charged 
with felony possession of a milk crate 
while staffing a literature table. 

The charge for which McHenry awaits 
imminent. trial stems from an incident on 
May 13, when he and a 71 -year old male 
companion entered the office of Supervisor 
Barbara Kaufman in City Hall to distribute 
literature about their organization. 

Nancy Kitz, an aide to Kaufman, de- 
manded that they get out. McHenry recalls 
that he proffered a leaflet, 1 saying, "Here, 
you might as well take one." The aide 
slammed the door and McHenry says he 
put out his hand to stop it from hitting his 
friend. The glass hit his hand and severed 
an artery. Claiming McHenry had punched 
out the glass, police arrested him and 
charged him with felony assault. 

In "Utopia," More wrote that "it would 
have been much better to provide some 
means of getting a living, that no one 
should be under this terrible necessity first 
of stealing and then of dying for it." 

Now, as then, there aren't enough jobs, 
and many cities and states are deciding 
that the way to deal with the sort of social 
collapse represented by a homeless person 
is to criminalize poverty. Close down 
public assistance, close your eyes and hope 
that the homeless, the single mothers, the 
down and out will disappear. 

Across New York City there are thou- 
sands of abandoned buildings taken over 
by the city that homeless people rehab and 
move into. The city sells the sites to 
speculators, who have the police kick out 
the homesteaders, then raze the structures. 
So much for allowing the helpless to help 
themselves. 

Sure, a persistent panhandler or a scrof- 
ulous vagrant can be tiresome, even 
frightening. But so long as the prevailing 
social attitude is to answer all problems 
with prisons, there will be more panhan- 
dlers and more vagrants. 

The historian Gaston Roupnel reports 
that citizens of 17th-Century Dijon, in 
France, were forbidden to feed the poor; 
"In the 16th Century, the beggar or 
vagrant was fed and cared for before he 
was sent away. In the early 17th Century, 
he had his head shaved. Later on, he was 
whipped; and the end of the century saw 
the last word in repression— he was turned 
into a convict." 

Of course, this kind of progress occurs 
more quickly now than it did three centu- 
ries ago. 

'Close down public assistance, 

close your eyes and hope that 

the homeless, the single 

mothers, the down and out 

will disappear.' 




and checked on even' once in a blue room 
* moon, drugs were taken bv everyone. 
C 3S*S necessary tests for tolerance were rarely 
^2§l given, so overdoses were common, as long 



3^" *j as the patient remained alive, it was just 
SjrjS more money for the institution, if you were 
*^W playing charades and had to act out "crazy 
\i% &• f° r y° u " ty madonna, you might move . 
sporadically and roll your eyes back in your 
head, if by some amendment to the rules of 
charades you were allowed to talk, you 

might slur your speech, but these 
characteristics are often a side effect of 
thorazine. they are called dystonic reactions, 
and the patients in the movie seemed happy 
while having them, however it was nearly 
impossible for them to communicate or even 
sit in sunlight without being in intense pain , 




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the next character in the movie was dr. paul 
blachfy, a physician who administered 4 
fl electric shocks in 20 minutes to a mother of 
f ,.$ 2 who came to him for depression, how this 
sr' Xfe idiot made it to a position of such magnitude &| 
? & 1 is a mystery to me. he confessed that he and 1$ 
V his colleges had no clue why the treatment . j*8 j 
$ seemed to give patients "a better state of \'J| 

'5 mind", then he remarked "since we've never JJB 
, t *J had an actual death, there is no way to SM 

*<i H evaluate harm in our patients. " one woman '|3$ 
• *' sf ,4 wno h^ received est recalled who martin |g 
j| -I luther king and jfk were; but she was 
Wf shocked (ha ha) to leam that they were dead.: 
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the interesting/relevant things i learned in 
high school were few and far betweea but ff 
my senior year i did a research project on ^ 

mental institutions, the only movie i could . , y ' 
find at my local university library was called! § 
"madness and medicine", although it was 
incredibly out of date,(1977) i'm pretty sure 
many of the techniques are still used in 
some form. ( if anyone can prove my 
information incorrect or outdated, please 
write to me. i would love to know more 
| about the subject, but it was impossible to 
find anything current in Springfield .mo. 



that in itself scares me. ) anyway, i put on 
J my headphones and watched as doctors 
scoffed at the question, "do we have the 
,' right to be crazy as long as we don't hurt 
someone else?" then i wondered who was 
the mortal god who could draw the blurry 
line between sanity and insanity, the scenes 
of daily life in the hospitals shown were 
straight out of "one flew over the cuckoo's 
nest", the patients sat or paced smoking 
cigarettes incessantly, while those who 
couldn't afford such luxuries picked butts up 
off the floor and sucked them to the filter, 
mam' patients never left bed although they 
were physically able to. deviations from this 
pattern were kept from occurring due to: 
solitary, drugs and est. seclusion rooms were 
saddled with soothing euphemisms, like "the 
blue room" or "the quiet room", if the room 
became your fate, you were strapped to a 
bed and left there with the lights on. then 
you were given bread, water and medicine 




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NO HUMAN BEING IS ILLEGAL" MARK VALLEN©' ART FOR A CHANGE, P.O. BOX 5751, SHERMAN OAKS. CA., 91413 • HECHO EN AZTLAN 



T: Yeah, I signed before I even went to the 

processing center. 

E: You'd already signed? 

T: I'd already signed paperwork, yeah. 

E: So, did they tell you what that paperwork 

you signed implied? Did they tell you, well 

you signed this but you can back out..,? 

T: They told me that I couldn't back out. I 

found out later on that I could have. I found 

out later on from CCCO (Central Committee 

for Conscientious Objectors) that you can back 

J: of the Delayed Entry Program...? 
T: ...actually, even up to six months after 
you've already been in the military. And you 
can qualify... they never tell you this, but 
somewhere in the Military Code of Justice or 
something there's something that says-I don't 
know exactly what it is-but it says up to six 
months after you've already gone to boot 
camp and everything, if you change your 
mind, you have a legal recourse and you can 
get a decent discharge. But they never tell you 
this. They never told me at boot camp that if I 
had dropped out during boot camp... they told 
me bad things would happen to me, but I 
found out later on that wasn't true. 
E; What kind of bad things? Persecution...? 
T: They said I'd receive a dishonorable 
discharge, and I'd never be able to get a 
decent job the rest of my life. I was 18 years 
old, you know... and my whole life would just 
be basically screwed over because it would 
follow me around... 
E: . . . for ever and ever. . , 
T: ... and it would be on this paperwork, 
which when you're 18 you think... 
(the tape screwed up at this point, bringing us 
abruptly into the discussion of boot camp) 
T: There's an element of psychological 
torture, brainwashing, where they'd work you 
out for five or six hours of just non-stop hard 
physical activity, up and down, up and down, 
doing pushups and situps, drills, running with 
an 80 lb. duffel bag on your back in full 
uniform with a gun, running in place. And 
they break you down until you're on the point 
of physical exhaustion and you're about to die. 
And then they line you up on a line and you 
stand on a line, and they dim the lights in the 
room, and it's really quiet for about a half an 
hour-this is one example I remember-and we 
stood on the line in full attention, pouring off 
sweat, everybody's physically exhausted... a 
couple of guys had collapsed on the ground, 
actually, during this, and we stood on the line 
at attention and all of a sudden on the 
loudspeakers they had a song that started 
playing, and it sounded like John Wayne or 
something, and the song was "I'm proud to be 
an American"-I don't know if you've ever 
heard the song, it goes: "I'm proud to be an 
American, where at least I know I'm free..." I 
don't remember the tune, but it's that song. 
And at that point, it seemed like everybody I 
could see-people across from me and people I 
was standing on line wiih-everybody was 
crying, and really emotionally touched by this. 
And I think at that point they felt bonded to it. 
They were doing something great for their 
country. I know I couldn't have been the only 
person that fell like this, but I kind of felt like 



laughing at that point. 

E; So now you're in boot camp. You signed, 

you're in. Did they tell you at any point you 

could have gone to war? That you could end 

up in a foreign land? 

T: Well there was no war, it was 1988, there 

was no chance... the worst thing that we're 

going to have to do maybe is be in a 

submarine, that's what I thought. That might 

be kind of awful, just being confined to a 

submarine. But there weren't any wars. And 

as far as I knew, there weren't going to be 

any wars. It never dawned on me. It was just 

like a job. 

J: And they never mentioned the possibility? 

T: No. No. Never once was it ever 

mentioned. 

E: Just education and... So you're in boot 

camp, how long is boot camp? 

T: Eight weeks. 

E: What happens after that? 

T: I stayed in Orlando, Florida. I was 

transferred to a different unit, which was my 

first training school, which was called Nuclear 

Field A School (???), which is where I studied 

basic engineering techniques. I went there for 

three months. After that I went for six months 

to a nuclear power school, which was top 

secret, guarded by Marines. The information 

we kept all had to be locked up at the end of 

the day. And at that point while I was in the 

middle of that school is when I started 

thinking I wanted to get out. Because I was 

studying a lot of nuclear stuff, and it just 

seemed really ominous. The thing that got to 

me, personally, was how much power, and 

how much danger, aid just the awesome 

destructive power of nuclear weapons. I 

started reading stuff « the time that... I had a 

friend in school who was really, really smart, 

he gave me this Noam Chomsky book which! 

thought was great- "Deterring Democracy." 

And I read that, and after I read that book I 

started to realize win,! it was all about. And 

that's when I started trying to get out. I made 

the mistake that the lim person I talked to was 

my chief who was in charge of me. That was 

a mistake. 

E: So you started reading about all this and 

thinking. "This may not be as good as I 

thought it was going to be..." 

T: Yeah. I was also having problems with 

conforming, with nol being able to express 

myself as an individual, with the incredible 

amount of hours that we had to spend doing 

their work, the studying, the punishments 

involved for things that I didn't think were 

wrong. It just started... it's a long time ago, I 

got out in 1989... 

E: So what came after that? 

T: Well, basically... I wrote to the Central 

Committee for Conscientious Objectors in 

Philadelphia... 

J: How'd you find out about them? 

T: Somebody in Florida had given me a 

magazine... oh, it wag "Sojourners," I don't 

know if you've ever leen it, it's a glossy 

magazine for religious people who work in, 

like, solidarity work, and they do... they're 

basically leftwing religious workers like 

Quakers, and Mennonites, stuff like that. And 

that had an article in it, and it had an address 



for the CCCO. I wrote to them, and contacted 
them, and they initiated... they were going to 
get in contact with my commander... I haven't 
thought about this in a long time... basically 
what happened was I got transferred to a unit 
for people who were on their way out, and I 
knew a guy who was doing the same thing, 
and he'd been there for a year and a half. And 
I didn't want to be there for a year and a half, 
so I started seeing a psychologist. And kind of 
trying to fake that I had something wrong with 
me. 

J: Did CCCO help you with that at all? 

T: It didn't seem like they stuck with me a 

whole lot. They made suggestions on 

procedures and they gave me a pamphlet... 

legal procedures that I was supposed to 

follow, 

J: But that's all for CO [conscientious 

objector] status... 

T: Yeah. That wouldn't even get me close to a 

discharge. 

J: So you decided to take the other route... 

T: ... which was faster, and I was out in two 

months. 

J: So that's what you would recommend for 

other people? 

T: I would recommend it, if you can get away 

with it. I don't know... 

E: Were you afraid to contact the CCCO? Did 

you think you were going to get reprisals from 

your superiors when you... 

T: I thought I might get extra work. 

J: Did you? 

T: No. Nobody found out that I was.-.. 

Actually, once they'd found out, I was already 

trying to get out on a psychological discharge. 

J: Once they found out, then did you get 

harassed? 

T: Yeah. Yeah. It all happened around the 

same time, it all happened really fast. 

E: Were other people with you? Did you have 

any friends inside the military? 

T: Well, there were a lot of people who felt 

the same way I did, I think. But a lot of them 

just thought it would be a lot easier just to 

serve their time. 

E: How long is "serve your time"? 

T: Mine was six years. 

E: Six years. 

T: In my program. 

E: So there are people there who want to get 

out, but would rather spend six years... 

T: I think there are people who, if they knew 

there was going to be someone on the outside 

who was going to help them, they would. But 

it just didn't feel like there was anybody that 

would have helped. 

E: Do you think that having information about 

your legal rights, in high school, would have 

helped you? 

T: Yeah. If I had known about that sort of 

thing I would have... If I had had somebody 

to talk to me to tell me that I would have been 

okay without the military, that would have 

been a great help. 



•«•*»**...,..»».„,, 



******#*•*#••**•** 



READ THIS 



The following interview was done by Esneider and Jane on Aug. 8, 1993, in front of Big Dog Records in Merced, California, after Huasipungo 
and Los Crudos played there. The person being interviewed is Todd, he s now 25 years old. He joined the Navy straight out of high school and 
managed to get out on a psychological discharge about a year later. If you are thinking about joining the military, write to Todd first before 
you sign anything! His address is 1761 Herman St. , Atwater, CA 95301. He'll write you a letter and tell you all about it. 

Also, we have pamphlets put out by the War Resisters League that gives the lowdown on what you should know before you sign. If you want 
more, write to us (Esneider <£ Jane) at 80-50 Baxter Ave. 0125, Ebnhurst, NY 11373. We have a bunch of them in both English and Spanish 
and we have access to them through the War Resisters League. (If enough people ask us for them we will do a benefit show to pay WRLfor the 
pamphlets. Or if you want to set up a benefit in your area for them, that would be cool— lei us know.) 

Even if you're sure you want to join the military, or if you think you have no other choice, read the pamphlet and write to Todd. What do you 
have to lose? Recruiters will push you to rush the decision, but don t let them. They '11 still want you next month, or the month after. Get the 
facts FIRST, not later. Though Todd got out in only two months, not everyone has it that easy, especially since the Gulf War (Todd got out just 
in time before it started). It 's much easier to make the decision before you 're on the inside. 

Also, and this is very important; many of you reading this would never even consider joining the military. But please don 't brush this off. First, 
read the pamphlet thoroughly. Then think hard, and I'm sure you can think of someone who IS thinking about joining the military, whether your 
brother or sister, or your neighbor, or just an acquantaince. Give them a copy of the pamphlet. (And feel free to make copies of this interview.) 

Or maybe your high school (or a friend's school) does heavy-duty military recruiting. (Martin from Los Crudos told us thai at the public high 
school where many of his friends went on Chicago's south side, nearly alt the teachers, administrators and counselors had been in the military 
and basically acted like recruiters; he said even if you walked into the counselor's office saying you wanted to go to such-and-such a college to 
study a particular subject, they would try to talk you out of it and talk you into joining the military instead. They would say you weren 't smart 
enough for college, or that your grades weren't good enough, etc.) 

We can send you extra pamphlets to distribute in schools (putting them in people 's lockers would be perfect because if you left a stack around, 
some administrator would surely throw them away.) There is a whole national campaign going on to demilitarize schools, or at least to get 
equal access for counter-recruitment information; you can write WRL if you want more info on that (their address is 339 Lafayette St. , New 
York, NY 10012). But you don 't have to join a group to stick pamphlets in lockers. It's an easy thing you can do that could really make a 
difference in someone 's life. 



E: So we were talking before about your 
experience in the military. You decided to join 
the military. 
T: Yes I did. 

E: Which branch did you join? 
T: The Navy. I was actually recruited in my 
high school physics class. Well, not recruited 
but they gave me information about an 
engineering program. And they made a lot of 
promises to me, of course, about what kind of 
a job I could get after I got out of the military 
with all this training they would give me. And 
it sounded really good, and I just kind of kept 
that in mind until I graduated high school. 
And then once I graduated, I didn't have 
anything I could do, my grades weren't good 
enough to go to college, I didn't have enough 
money, and my mom threw me out, so I 
joined the military. 

E: Was there any access in your high school 
to information about what would happen to 
you in the military? Was like the War 
Resisters League there, any pamphlets, 
anything? 

T: No, nothing at all. There was no 
information like that. The only kind of 
information they gave us was pro-military 
information-the guidance counselor kept [pro- 
military] pamphlets on hand for people to 
consider. It was almost as if the school 



counselors promoted it. That was my 

impression. 

E: Were the teachers in any way pro-military? 

Did they say anything? 

T: Not that 1 can rerr.ember. I'm sure they 

might have been. 

E; So basically it was the counselors... 

T: Nobody tried to tell me anything bad about 

any experience they'd had, nobody tried to tell 

me of any harsher consequences the military 

might have. 

E: So you never knew anyone who went into 

the military? 

T: Not personally, no. 

E: So what was the process? First you talked 

to the counselor, then what happened after 

that? 

T: I went and talked to a recruiter. They 

actually bent over backwards to get me into 

the military, because I was overweight, I was 

15 pounds over their weight limit that they 

wanted for new recruits, and he went as far as 

to put me on a diet and exercise program so I 

could lose IS pounds in about a month, so I'd 

be skinny enough to join the military. They 

wanted people really bad, 1 mean, they'd have 

a group of people who were what they call the 

DEPs, it's like their little... 

J: Delayed Entry Program... 

T: Yeah, of kids who were waiting to be 



recruited. And they'd take us on bowling trips 

and stuff like that... 

E: Like boy scouts... 

T: Almost, it had that feeling. I thought it was 

really hokey. But I went along with it because 

I wanted to go into the military. 

E: So now you have a recruiting officer telling 

you what you're gonna get from it, which 

is...? 

T: I'm going to be trained as a nuclear 

propulsion engineer to work in a submarine on 

a nuclear reactor. And after I get out of the 

military, I'm going to get a job for 50 or 75 

thousand dollars a year, in another six years, 

and I'm going to be making all this money, 

and I'll be highly skilled as an engineer. 

E: Just for joining the military. 

T: Just for joining the military, and they tried 

to make me feel like I was part of a... elite's a 

bad word but part of a group that's better than 

the rest of the recruits because we were 

intellectually... we scored better on math and 

science tests. And they tried to separate us, 

and all through basic training we were 

separated from the regular recruits, and we 

went to an engineering school. They told me I 

was going to learn all this great engineering 

stuff and I was going to be able to get a great 

job afterwards, basically. 

E: So at that point did you sign anything?